David Gray

I was trying to find a thread to hide this in but couldn't, so here we are.  No big deal, just it's been so long since I was on here and I've spent a fair bit of time detached from DGs music (burn out, memories attached to songs, whatever) that I thought I'd share a couple of thoughts.

Firstly, I now have the opportunity to re-discover David through his last two albums neither of which I have.  I feel like some of those who knew his earliest days when they actually happened who then came back along during the White Ladder/ANDAM days!  After LISM, which is nothing short of great, I've had a hiatus in listening maybe due to a bit of overkill in the former days, so I've missed all but the single Draw the Line which again I really liked.  In a way though, this is exciting.

Secondly, and this will show you how long I've been out of touch for (bear with me), I will miss hearing and seeing Clune in the music and the videos.  Couldn't describe what a great part of things he was, twirly sticks and crazy faces but over all such genius behind the drums and in his voice (Sail Away, Be Mine to name but two examples), nothing short of amazing but now he's gone I hope things are going well for him and it would be so good to see him and DG work together again one day if they do.  Say hello, wave goodbye Clune - you are a legend .

RP (or Chris for those of older times)

dear chris,

i think you are speaking about a very relevant topic here. why is there a a pre-lism time? where this place was cool to be and there is this guy, independent, on the shores of wales singing "his heart out". and then there is the commercial londoner trying to be non-irish and more of a songwriter. and fan-culture on a fan-forum just presents the state the artist is in...

i get the most chills from songs of sell sell sell or flesh. mainly because i can connect to old times. remember how i was when i was twenty. yes, the songs were different. they had more agression and maybe more longing and a voice just can say everything sometimes. a raspy, slightly out of tune, voice told me "this feeling i feel so strong, so powerful it can't be wrong' or 'many with the notion that to share is to loose'.

but to the love of music there is as well the feeling of growing up with a musician. understanding that people change, watch birds or are into strawberry jam. understanding that life is about finding a place wether it means to feed a family, evolve or even 'dump' a drummer you love.

i'm pretty sure ninety percent of the people here don't care about the stuff i wrote now. but they care mostly because they love the voice, the lyrics, the sarcasm, the face, the energy, the band and the attitude of dg. and that is why the people you find here are the people who really love dg.

and to everyone who knows me, i'm tipsy and pretty sure i'm just talking to myself.

 

---

I gave away a penalty, fouled Maradona, hacked down Gordon Ramsay - DG

I may be talking out of my hat here and very possibly wrong, and by doggies I've been wrong before, but it was such a long wait from LISM to Draw the Line, and it seems that was a part of his life to enjoy being a dad. I really don't know how old his daughters are, and frankly it's none of my beeswax. But with the tumult for him after ANDAM, changing the sound, and very importantly the LOOK of the band from denim to suits could have sent him further inwards - buying the studio and producing the music himself. During the lean years, album-wise, from Midnight to Life gave him the outlook of being a singer in a band to having a band of his own. Clune is indeed missed, but his "new recruits" have considerable input to his writing. He also suffered a pretty serious threat to his voice after Life and it gave him the gruff sound he puts out today. I love the entire catalog and find it easy to switch from Century Ends to Foundling and missing not a single beat. And Neill MacColl and Rob Malone have really given zest to his new sound, not to forget Keith and Tim. I am eagerly awaiting the next album, to see what surprises lie in store!

---

Remember - your soul is the one thing you can't compromise

Mmm, I'm loving the thoughts on this thread. I don't *think* I count as an old-timer. I was one of those who thought Babylon was a pretty cool song and bought White Ladder when it hit the US. I was sucked in to the honesty of that album, and turned around and bought as much of his back catalog as I could. He wasn't my #1 favorite at the time, but he was up there for sure, and I bought ANDAM and LISM on the day they were each released. It wasn't until I saw him live for the first time in 2006, after all the craziness of his superstardom, that it finally all clicked for me. I was in awe, watching all that honesty and passion that I heard on White Ladder and those earlier CDs come to life before me. Since that moment, I haven't been able to shake his music.

Anyway, have fun rediscovering his music. I know the thing old fans usually say is that the early stuff is the best, and it could be true in this case as well, but I honestly do think that some of his finest songs have been in the last few records as well. Kathleen might be his best song ever in my mind. Fixative pulled at me from the very first listen. Holding On is haunting. Jackdaw is beautiful.  And RyanRunner, you are dead-on.  I love hearing the transformation of the young man who sang all those songs like What Are You to the man who now sings songs like It Accumulates.  It's an amazing progression, and given where he was back then, where he is now, and all that happened in between, they are both totally authentic. 

I'll stop now. I could go on and on!  

RyanRunner:

i'm pretty sure ninety percent of the people here don't care about the stuff i wrote now.

 

 But ten percent do. 

great thread........beth where have you been??!!

and lol ryan..........i do agree that we do listen!!

absolutely the man has matured...........that said sell sell resonates as much as lism does - alibi still moves the heart!

dtl has its strong points as does foundling (sorry ak) but my hope is he finds the space between singer songwriter and pop artist............that has been his curse and his savior - waiting to see which way he leans on the next one

either way I hope we are good................

I definitely agree on the pre & post LISM thing. And no matter how much David wants us to think that Foundling's return to simplicity is a step back to his early days, there isn't anything musically or lyrically on that album that resonates me with like the stuff from the early days. But hey, you can't be in your 20s or 30s for your whole life and maybe wearing a suit is more appropriate when you're living the good life.

I love everything from ACE to Lost Songs, because it's all so raw and passionate and you feel like this guy is really pouring his heart out into the songs. There isn't any fancy metaphors or wordplay, but rather everything is laid out in front of you and the simplicity of it all makes it so much powerful and real. Just a guy like the rest of us who's written songs about things we all feel, but couldn't put into words.

And then you listen to Transformation and go like "what the **** is this ****?". Anyway, DTL's at least 50% gold and the current band is better than ever before. Clune's on that LISM dvd, but something was already lost with the whole band (while it's a great performance still). It's not the same as on the earlier boots or the The Point dvd. 

Then again, maybe the music is just as good as it always was, but deep down I'd rather live that period where David's playing Witnness or Glastonbury with the funny looking band and no early song was off limits  and everyone in the audience wasn't middle aged.

---

You're staring at the sky, but the moon ain't gonna pay our bills.

first off mr internet the crowds are not middle aged..................I saw plenty of youth at all three gigs I attended this summer.........or possibly it is in the eye of this beholder??!!

I think it started at sell sell sell...............great dancing songs like late night radio and everytime..........yet interspersed with greatness like holdon to nothing and gutters full of rain.............I do agree on dtl and pretty much do on foundling - I loved the tour but I don't go back to that cd for specific songs......I am sure they will find the right groove for the next one

mr internet

---

You're staring at the sky, but the moon ain't gonna pay our bills.

Beth:

RyanRunner:

i'm pretty sure ninety percent of the people here don't care about the stuff i wrote now.

 

 But ten percent do. 

Count me in! Indeed they do!

---

http://naipan.tumblr.com/

Hey, this is a great discussion. I haven't posted here for many months, but this one compels me to. Although I'm not fully qualified to speak on this - having only discovered David during the DTL timeframe - I have acquired his entire disc library and become and avid follower over the last 2 1/2 years. Here are a few of my observations....

I can appreciate the comments here comparing the earlier era with David's current 'sound' and works. Personally, I break his musical career so far into three phases - Pre-WL; WL thru LISM (until DTL that is); and DTL forward (with the band changes). I also can appreciate the wistful comments of missing the youthful exuberance of the early days, and the themes/thoughts expressed in those early days. Absolutely a young man finding himself, making tough choices in life as he strives to tackle the world, relationship challenges and discoveries, and leaving old world behind as he tries to establish himself. The songs are deeply personal and youthful, and let's face it - we all like to wish we could remain youthful forever.

When I compare to what he is now, I still see the passion in his songs, but there's a maturity there now, as well as writing from outside himself vs. always from a deep personal place. He's talked to that in interviews thru DTL period - the discovery of being able to write now from this perspective. Is that a bad thing? absolutely not. Has his music lost it's passion? absolutely not. But is it the same as it was 20 years ago when he was still a struggling artist trying to make a go? Absolutely not. The fact is, he still writes from the heart, he pours himself into his writing and music, and his band is excellent. Yes, matured from the gruffy jean jacket look to the suave suits, but IMHO it's all part of a maturation and life progression, but passion is still there. It's a privilege to follow an artist of this calibre who loves what he does and works very hard at it. Compare the quality of what David puts out with some others who've reached the level he's reached. I believe it becomes harder and harder for a singer songwriter type to write from the heart as one gets older and achieves a good deal of success. I won't mention names, but there's a lot of big names out there who haven't done much of note for 10, 20 years now. I don't see that with David Gray. Continues to deliver gems with each of his last two albums, and tours have been outstanding. I for one am Anxiously awaiting his next one, while not expecting it to have the same tone as the early years.

 

Just my thoughts.

Fantastic conversation!

I am another one of those people who fell out of listening to David Gray for a bit between the LISM and DTL albums. Of course, he was still on rotation, but it wasn't like it is now or previous to that. I think everyone, including David, took a break for a little bit. It was a lot of material coming out and a lot of tours. It was all fantastic, but once he took a break, it seemed apt to take a break and maybe try out new artists... keeping it fair and all ;) . 

After news of Clune leaving and the long break, I was a little... maybe dismissive of Draw the Line. Honestly, it was hard to hear David without Clune backing him. It was such an integral part of his sound previously... that detailed layer that smattered his songs and brought this other personality to it if you listened hard enough. But, after all, it was still David Gray, so it still had to have a fair chance of listening to.... and with that, I started repeating 'Nemesis'. Now, THERE was the guy I loved. Introspective, other-worldly sounds and lyrics that you can imagine David Gray swaying to, with his hands dancing like the composer he is. Around that same time, my step-son and wife started requesting Jackdaw and Fugitive in the car... and with big smiles would sing along. You know why? They were happy songs musically. Though David may have his moments on the older albums that make us older fans smile, there was still this darkness that was always there. Now, me, personally.... I love darker sounds, darker albums, darker lyrics.... and I love that David Gray has been that artist that can pull it off without feeling like a glumly guy in the corner that never smiles. But, here was actual happy-sounding songs that pulled off the energy he tried to with older material, but never quite felt as natural with (we will disregard Debauchery from this comment for obvious reasons). Magdalena or Wisdom... fun songs that I love as a fan, but put them next to Jackdaw, and as a song, as I don't think they hold up nearly as well. This maturity in all the songs across Draw The Line and Foundling, in my opinion, is very evident and feels quite right. The suits and vests tell you how he feels about his music. He is putting out professional music that he is more proud of than ever. Honing his skill and aware of where he is going with it. I like that. Intentional movements with his songwriting and his career. The best part about that is that because of this... him finding a good balance of touring, recording and producing his own material in his own studio, and being able to be with family more, I think that he will be putting out music for many years to come. That is a balance that appears many touring artists do not seem to figure out and often tears apart them from the love of the game. His love for music seems to be larger than ever, and listening to him speak about it nowadays, it becomes infectious. Draw the Live and Foundling seem to have this organic warmth about them that draw me in, and I think that is cause of where he is now. 

And, now, my 8 year old requests the song 'Foundling'. Kinda funny that an 8 year old is drawn more to that than Please Forgive Me, which you would expect from a kid his age. But then again, I may just read into things too much and love to talk. ;)

P.S. My favorite album is still Flesh. 

 

I depend on David Gray maturing and changing and challenging us.  There was stuff on each of  the last two releases that did so, and there was stuff that didn't.  I find it difficult connecting with the emotions of the older stuff.  I can't appreciate a song like Jackdaw more so when it seems to answer TY'sL.  The perspective of the latter is lost to me at 40 and married - or 41, happy birthday to me.  All the same can't wait for what's next.  I hope everyone is eating their veggies.

sean 

---

I eat food.

dude

Well, he's already singing about old people so I'm not sure where he can go from here anymore

---

You're staring at the sky, but the moon ain't gonna pay our bills.